Author Topic: Orlov essay on bicycles  (Read 1233 times)

Lawis4Losers

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Orlov essay on bicycles
« on: February 04, 2012, 01:34:03 AM »
Good read from Dmitry, I really like his blog:

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/01/perfectly-comfortable.html

rbrgs

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 02:10:47 AM »
Bicycles work great...as long as you have a mostly flat, paved road.  On gravel, with a hill, (like the road I live on), not so much. 
I've given up on waiting for other people to get it.  Now, I'm waiting for it to get them.

ashmeadskernel

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 03:57:09 AM »
Bicycles work great...as long as you have a mostly flat, paved road.  On gravel, with a hill, (like the road I live on), not so much.

You know, when I was a kid, I lived on a hill.  A big one.  And my driveway, all 3/4 mile of it, was gravel.  Every winter, my dad would go get more gravel to fill the potholes.  Anyway, there is no problem riding a bike on a gravelly hill.  I would know, because I did it in order to bicycle to school (uphill, both ways, in the snow, blah blah blah).  The trick is, you don't get a nice road bike.  The first bike I got was a handmedown from my two older brothers, and I remember breaking the frame.  Oops.  You get something more rugged, wider tires, and you bicycle in the muddy gravel.
"without food stamps the calorie strip miners AKA  GMO corn growers would all go bankrupt" -chesire

ralfy

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 04:12:25 AM »
In poor countries, only a fraction of roads is paved.
"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I attack."--Ferdinand Foch

thegardener

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 04:57:31 AM »
 The Ho Chi Minh trail was definitely not paved.
Never act with cruelty, dispassionate necessity is harsh enough.
-Agentr

J.A.F.O.

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 07:38:38 AM »
Bicycles work great...as long as you have a mostly flat, paved road.  On gravel, with a hill, (like the road I live on), not so much.

No problem..  They're called mountain bikes, mate..  look it up.
We got further smashing windows than we ever got letting them smash our heads.
~ Christabel Pankhurst, Suffragette

What happens in disasters demonstrates everything an anarchist ever wanted to believe about the triumph of civil society and the failure of institutional authority. ~ Rebecca Solnit 'A Paradise Built in Hell'

I don't vote. Because I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain.
Yeah, people like to twist that around, I know.. they say "Well, if you don't vote, you have no right to complain." But where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent people, and they get into office and screw everything up, well, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem, you voted them in, you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who, in fact, did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done, and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess you created that I had nothing to with. ~ George Carlin

People who pretend to forget history are doomed to invent it. ~ Gromit

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mousewizard

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 07:48:46 AM »
The Ho Chi Minh trail was definitely not paved.
And it was jam packed with bicycles carrying loads.
Don't tell ME not to prepare because it's "hopeless." If you choose not to prepare, then be quick about your dying post collapse. Don't be running around trying to scavenge stuff up last minute. Leave that for me and mine during the salvage age.

rbrgs

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2012, 08:28:09 AM »
The bike I was speaking of is a Trek (old enough that the frame was steel) mountain bike.  The hill I live on is so steep that I had to walk it uphill, and so bumpy that I had to ride the brakes to hold it to walking speed going down.  Granted, the road sucks (we built it ourselves with my neighbor's bulldozer, and nobody in the neighborhood has the time or money to fill the holes that wash out when it rains), but a bicycle just isn't practical.  Quite the disappointment, 'cause I used to ride a lot and even had a set of Cannondale saddlebags to camp out of when I lived on the mainland.  I gave the Trek to my son to use while he was in college, and it's out in his barn somewhere.

So it's not so much "that won't work" as it is "that didn't work".  Once the oil's gone, infrastructure will deteriorate pretty quickly, and bicycles will be most useful in the "Ho Chi Minn Trail" style, loaded up with a couple hundred pounds of stuff and pushed, not ridden. 

Orlov's essay is mostly about riding on paved roads in Boston.  Bicycling on roads meant for cars is easy compared to what's coming.....
I've given up on waiting for other people to get it.  Now, I'm waiting for it to get them.

J.A.F.O.

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 08:37:12 AM »
The bike I was speaking of is a Trek (old enough that the frame was steel) mountain bike.  The hill I live on is so steep that I had to walk it uphill, and so bumpy that I had to ride the brakes to hold it to walking speed going down.  Granted, the road sucks (we built it ourselves with my neighbor's bulldozer, and nobody in the neighborhood has the time or money to fill the holes that wash out when it rains), but a bicycle just isn't practical.  Quite the disappointment, 'cause I used to ride a lot and even had a set of Cannondale saddlebags to camp out of when I lived on the mainland.  I gave the Trek to my son to use while he was in college, and it's out in his barn somewhere.

In a situation that bad, I'd suggest a horse..  ;)
We got further smashing windows than we ever got letting them smash our heads.
~ Christabel Pankhurst, Suffragette

What happens in disasters demonstrates everything an anarchist ever wanted to believe about the triumph of civil society and the failure of institutional authority. ~ Rebecca Solnit 'A Paradise Built in Hell'

I don't vote. Because I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain.
Yeah, people like to twist that around, I know.. they say "Well, if you don't vote, you have no right to complain." But where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent people, and they get into office and screw everything up, well, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem, you voted them in, you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who, in fact, did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done, and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess you created that I had nothing to with. ~ George Carlin

People who pretend to forget history are doomed to invent it. ~ Gromit

Money is just violence that folds up neatly and fits in your wallet ~ Chesire

rbrgs

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 09:12:21 AM »
Horses need a barn with a wooden or concrete floor to get their hooves out of the mud or they get hoof rot (210" of rain a year is the average; last year was a serious drought; only 150").  I do have enough pasture, but not really enough for a horse to do (all the implements I have were designed for a tractor, and you can't ride them on the road, even if I had tack), and too many people will be out poaching WTSHTF.  I'll stick with the diesel tractor for now, but the long term plan includes milk cows and oxen.

It's a good idea to actually test things like this now, rather than waiting until after the crash, and finding out that they don't work as well in the real world as they did on paper.
I've given up on waiting for other people to get it.  Now, I'm waiting for it to get them.

J.A.F.O.

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2012, 09:33:57 AM »
I'll stick with the diesel tractor for now, but the long term plan includes milk cows and oxen.

Then all you need is tack and a saddle..

We got further smashing windows than we ever got letting them smash our heads.
~ Christabel Pankhurst, Suffragette

What happens in disasters demonstrates everything an anarchist ever wanted to believe about the triumph of civil society and the failure of institutional authority. ~ Rebecca Solnit 'A Paradise Built in Hell'

I don't vote. Because I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain.
Yeah, people like to twist that around, I know.. they say "Well, if you don't vote, you have no right to complain." But where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent people, and they get into office and screw everything up, well, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem, you voted them in, you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who, in fact, did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done, and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess you created that I had nothing to with. ~ George Carlin

People who pretend to forget history are doomed to invent it. ~ Gromit

Money is just violence that folds up neatly and fits in your wallet ~ Chesire

thegardener

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2012, 05:50:00 PM »
My mountain bike worked well for me on dirt and gravel in Indiana.
Never act with cruelty, dispassionate necessity is harsh enough.
-Agentr

jerrypenguin

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2012, 06:26:20 PM »
"I especially like mine, which I bought second-hand, from a friend, for something like $150. That was about 20 years ago." - Orlov

Same here, except I paid $15.00 each for my favorite bicycles.  One of which was in very dismal shape.  The dismal bike took around two years to rebuild to forty year old bike perfection.  Both bikes are the subject of many compliments.

I also built my dream bike.  This is a Specialized S-Works compact frame.  The bike is built for speed and climbing.  It's very demanding and unforgiving.  I don't dare check out the mountains or women when using this bike.  There have been a few extra scars added to my old body from from riding this bike.  I almost never use the damn thing.

ralfy

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2012, 07:06:24 PM »
Parts of the Ho Chih Minh trail was paved, and even bicycle paths were formed, of course provided by local authorities to transport goods.   Later, as more areas were cleared, trucks were used to transport goods.

It would probably be the equivalent of a a main road in poor communities. Actual trails (probably including some in Vietnam during the war) would probably involve travel by foot, especially for those that are very steep. The water buffalo would be used sparingly.



"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I attack."--Ferdinand Foch

Lawis4Losers

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Re: Orlov essay on bicycles
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2012, 02:35:15 AM »
What Dmitry forgot to add/note re: his dislike of cars is the complete and total forfeiture of your Constitutional rights the second you slide behind the wheel. The cops can basically pull you over for ANY reason, search your car for ANY reason (w/out a warrant), force you to blow into a breathlyzer at a random "checkpoint," etc. Not to mention nanny state nonsense like seat belt laws, no cell phone laws,- hell, a few years ago some NJ legislator introduce a bill that would ban cigarette smoking in private vehicles! I think in some states it is already illegal to smoke in a car if a minor is on board.

One thing I REALLY despise is the now-nonstop "seat belt reminder" that will ring every 20 seconds if you don't have the belt fastened. Used to be they only rang when you started the engine, then they stopped even if you didn't "buckle up." I'd like to find the ninny who mandated the endless seat belt chime and pound a fucking claw hammer into their brainstem.

Funny how the most beautiful cars of all time were the Depression era tin, like the '34 Ford V8. The sweep of the running boards, the V-grille, the ducktail rear/trunklid - just beautiful, an absolute work of art. What a shame that the few originals left are "pimped" into street rods and other nonsensical trash. Chopping a car like that into a garish custom is like a graffitti "artist" tagging the Mona Lisa w/ spray paint.